Fighting, sex and gay men

ozwrestle

7 posts

ozwrestle says on 8/24/2012 12:09 AM

Good subject and for most people who know me I am a gay fighter, wrestler or what ever you want to call me. Like Sturdy I trained at clubs and loved it for the sport. I then went on to coach a national team and took them to international competition. They knew I was Gay, they didn't care, the parents of the kids I had in the club didn't care because I knew that sport was sport and fun was fun.

I have met a lot of guys from this site and others and not all of the matches end in Sex, infact the guys all know that its sport first, which is why we agreed to meet in the beginning. On some occasions it has led to some mind blowing sex but it was agreed.

To be honest I loved training with Straight guys, they always tried to test my ability to stay on the path to sport. Especially when your sparring, they will tease you but when you don't play there games you are just a training partner. Believe me I have trained with some of the worlds top fighters, dangerous men on this planet and we all spar (roll) as men who love the sport for sport sake.

I guess I have been lucky that although being gay in a straight world of combat sports has never held me back, I did go through some issues back in 80's when my state association found out that I was gay and I was running a school based wrestling program and I was removed from the program and thrown from the organisation because of bigoted and homophobic attitudes.. All this whilst I ran the National Wrestling titles and delivering the states best performance in 20 years with the number of gold medals and other performances which are not for this topic....

I consequently left that state and ended up becoming the state secretary for a different state's association who accepted me for me and not my sexual orientation. Infact what amazed me was how well I was accepted by them at competitions.

Sturdy, I guess I got a little off topic, The stereo types of being gay and wrestling, especially in places like this site and others is a fact a life.. Don't dispair brother life goes on, we are out there..

Cheers all..

fullof

1 posts

fullof says on 6/04/2014 11:31 AM

(In reply to this)

Cheers. I loved your text...

Sturdy

218 posts

Sturdy says on 7/24/2012 11:21 PM

@turpin... I think you are being a little modest when you say you are not the real thing. I haven't fought you yet, but looking at your profile and recommendations you obviously take competitive fighting seriously.

Not being a professional wrestler (whatever that means these days!) makes no difference. Skill and talent are relative concepts. The crucial element is the attitude. And it looks to me like you're the real deal, so I'll be expecting a rumble with you next time I'm up north!

fhall2 (deleted member)

41 posts

fhall2 (deleted member) says on 7/22/2012 3:14 AM

well

I like muay thai, and I have some bjj training, but I like knees, giving and taking them. So would that make me gay? It shouldn't. I knowledge that I cannot be a wrestler or ever be a top-flight fighter, but as long as I'm kneeing a guy and being kneed, that's all I need to be happy.

turpin (deleted member)

46 posts

turpin (deleted member) says on 7/18/2012 1:17 AM

I don't take issue with a lot of what's been said on all sides of the debate. However, I disagree with the concept that as adults, you can no longer pretend. Those who don their pro gear, climb in the ring and grunt and groan are arguably no different from the many middle-aged, slightly overweight men who huff and puff their way round a football pitch on a Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning who dream that one day they'll get the call-up for the Premier League. Of course it's a dream and pretend, but it keeps a lot of people going and they're deluding no-one but themselves. I always wanted to be a wrestler, I know damn well I'll never be one, but this site and the guys I've met, gay or straight I don't bloody care, have helped me to live the dream. I'm not the real thing, I've not the skill or ability to be the real thing, but I've got the interest and enthusiasm, so don't deny me that please. My sexuality has nothing to do with it.

Sturdy

218 posts

Sturdy says on 7/17/2012 12:03 AM

Vanman, do what I did and look for a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu club near you. They value the experience of sparring as part of the session. At the one I go to it takes up a good 3rd to half of the session. And it will do WONDERS for your grappling, believe me...

Sturdy

218 posts

Sturdy says on 7/16/2012 11:37 PM

I do not consider heels and jobbers to be idiots, if you read my profile again you will see that what I am saying is that if you approach me for a pro-style session, having read my profile which tells you very explicitly that this is NOT my thing, you are, by that reasoning, an idiot.

Not that it helps, by the way. If I make the mistake of going into Chat on here I still get jobbers coming on to me looking for me to "work them over"... A lot of guys just look at your pictures and don't bother to read ANY of your profile.

I'm not judging people for having fetishes, I'm glad they have something that makes them happy. I'm only judging those who cannot see beyond their fetish.

restle

36 posts

restle says on 7/16/2012 9:44 PM

I wouldnt want you to "go away". Its just the original person to open this debate does seem to want things a bit black and white and can be judgemental. For instance on his profile he calls anyone who describes themselves as "jobbers or heels" as idiots yet if you look at some of his past opponents a number do use this as a reference point as to who they are. Does this make them idiots? Im suggesting a more open approach where I will wrestle straight or gay, and whilst having a preference for gay (as I do see it as an outlet for post match action) can accept when this isnt on offer.

Vanman81

8 posts

Vanman81 says on 7/16/2012 9:19 PM

That is fair comment and I am sure those of the straight minority (me included) are aware that people may not take the "I'm straight and just want to wrestle" comment at face value. The other side of that coin is the "I'm gay and want sex"comment could also be seen as an open door for all, but I bet it isn't. Gay guys are just as likely to find some people on the site as unattractive as I do. (no offence meant lads)

I enjoy wrestling. Ok I've said it now it is out in the open.

I have been to hours of training and done the same moves against the same opponent a million times before getting a few minutes grappling at the end of the session. The training is needed but sometimes I just want to grapple!

This site has allowed me to do that a number of times for which I am grateful (and I've lost a couple of pounds in the process).

The straight wrestling sites seem a bit elusive as well, I have done a google search and after 10 pages could find anything nearer to me than Wisconsin and that was collegiate. Now I enjoy wrestling but I am not travelling that far when I can do the same in Rochdale / Manchester. I also prefer subs just to make it harder to find.

If you can provide a link to a site covering the north west that is just wrestling then let me know.

I am not promising to go away if you do though.

Can't we all just acknowledge whether we want to fight or do more when discussing a match. The guys can then decide to meet or not. If someone wrestles me they need to know it won't go further than a wrestle.

Oh by the way do you fancy a wrestle? Let me know.

bassman

43 posts

bassman says on 10/01/2014 5:29 PM

(In reply to this)

I love a good long sweaty slow grapple too Bri.

restle

36 posts

restle says on 7/16/2012 8:01 PM

I guess though this is arguably a gay site - a straight site would have things like "fight for top" as an option. As such I think most guys on here understand that and if they were looking for a straight match would source it elsewhere. Cant help thinking that you can go and fight straight blokes on a straight site and no-one would have to know you were gay anyhow? In my view if your gay and seek out other men that are gay to have matches with, then you are increasing your chances of finding guys that will find you appealing than if you were to meet people from a straight site. I guess I don't entirely disagree with your conclusions other than some of us enjoy wrestling and gay aspects that sometimes follow. If you meet guys in gay bars to wrestle then you are kinda setting urself up for other assumptions...fair ot not!

irishpunknyc

4 posts

irishpunknyc says on 7/16/2012 5:07 AM

Well said. The world, and the way each of us experiences it, is not monolithic.

Sturdy

218 posts

Sturdy says on 7/16/2012 3:17 AM

WARNING: This may NOT be what you expect it to be. If you are disappointed I make NO apologies!

I love fighting. At school I hated sport because it bored the pants off me. Running around chasing a ball seemed a totally futile exercise. Then as a teenager I startred doing karate and finally found a sport that I actually enjoyed doing.

I discovered something else around that time, too, of course: my sexuality. My third discovery was that being a gay martial artist was - in the Eighties, in the English Midlands, at least - a real novelty. Straight men would frown in puzzlement at the apparent incongruity of a gay man who did not fit the stereotype of being weak and meek. Gay guys would consider it "very butch" and be very admiring (if also, often, just as puzzled).

Times have changed since then, but still for many people it is the case that if something does not fit their narrow view of the world, it does not compute. It is beyond their imagination.

When I started wrestling I came up against this same mental block. It is a fact that the vast majority of people can ONLY conceive of gay men being interested in wrestling as a sexual fetish. And when I say "the vast majority of people" that includes 99.99999999999999% of gay men.

Don't get me wrong: I love sex. I even have fetishes of my own. But fighting is not a fetish. Fighting is not sexual. Most men who enjoy fighting are heterosexual and their enjoyment of combat has nothing to do with sexual arousal. It is an adrenalin rush, one of many that can be found in sports. I enjoy it in exactly the same way as straight men do. I know this because I spar with straight men regularly.

But for many gay men this is inconceivable. They are aroused by fighting - or, more often, by the image or trappings of fighting rather than the reality - and therefore I must be the same as them.

And the blinkered conceit doesn't end there. They don't just project their own narrow worldview onto other gay men, they project it onto straight men as well. They assume that straight men get aroused when they wrestle each other.

This truly makes me despair. It truly makes me embarrassed to be gay. This kind of thinking is not a million miles from the type of mentality that jokes about fancying straight men and getting them drunk in order to make them sexually susceptible. In other words, disgusting.

But I'm not at all surprised. Why should I be? Gay culture is highly sexualised. For many gay men, everything about being a man is sexual. All masculinity is sexual. Anything that is masculine, or "butch" or "straight-acting", is sex. Reality is distorted by a filter that narrows everything down to a tightly restricted view of the outside world.

Fetishes are great fun. The problem comes when you confuse the fetish with the real source from which it originated. When you cannot distinguish between fantasy and the real thing.

When we were children, we played let's pretend. We played at dressing up. We had costumes - cowboys, astronauts, whatever - and had fun tasking on those roles, and it was great. Today we have adults who put on costumes and pretend to be wrestlers.

What is the difference? When we were children we knew we weren't really astronauts, but these adults who roll around in lycra groping each other think they ARE real wrestlers when they are still just pretending...

They're LESS clued up than they were when they were seven years old!

I love fighting. I love sex too, but for me they are two separate pleasures. Despite what many gay men would have you believe, it IS possible to be gay and NOT have every single aspect of your life coloured by your sexuality. It is possible to have a real, non-sexualised masculinity.

You can be gay AND be a real fighter. Travesty is not your only option.

You can be the real thing.

ozwrestle

7 posts

ozwrestle says on 8/24/2012 12:04 AM

(In reply to this)

Good subject and for most people who know me I am a gay fighter, wrestler or what ever you want to call me. Like Sturdy I trained at clubs and loved it for the sport. I then went on to coach a national team and took them to international competition. They knew I was Gay, they didn't care, the parents of the kids I had in the club didn't care because I knew that sport was sport and fun was fun.

I have met a lot of guys from this site and others and not all of the matches end in Sex, infact the guys all know that its sport first, which is why we agreed to meet in the beginning. On some occasions it has led to some mind blowing sex but it was agreed.

To be honest I loved training with Straight guys, they always tried to test my ability to stay on the path to sport. Especially when your sparring, they will tease you but when you don't play there games you are just a training partner. Believe me I have trained with some of the worlds top fighters, dangerous men on this planet and we all spar (roll) as men who love the sport for sport sake.

I guess I have been lucky that although being gay in a straight world of combat sports has never held me back, I did go through some issues back in 80's when my state association found out that I was gay and I was running a school based wrestling program and I was removed from the program and thrown from the organisation because of bigoted and homophobic attitudes.. All this whilst I ran the National Wrestling titles and delivering the states best performance in 20 years with the number of gold medals and other performances which are not for this topic....

I consequently left that state and ended up becoming the state secretary for a different state's association who accepted me for me and not my sexual orientation. Infact what amazed me was how well I was accepted by them at competitions.

Sturdy, I guess I got a little off topic, The stereo types of being gay and wrestling, especially in places like this site and others is a fact a life.. Don't dispair brother life goes on, we are out there..

Cheers all..

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