Masculine, fit, regular guy seeking similar for boxing and wrestling action in the greater DC area and nationwide. Submission, pro, or pin. Also interested in standup fights; boxing and UFC/MMA. Prefer mature men ages 40-70. Can host in DC or Lewes Delaware, or travel. Serious about meeting and fighting. Rough fights are good. safe and sane. No cyber, no endless messages that lead to nothing.
Travel nationwide: Boston, NYC, Phila, Denver, San Diego, LA, Palm Springs, Seattle, San Francisco, Florida. Also travel to Europe: France, UK, Germany.
I'm real and you should be too. No flakes, no fakes, no drama. Good guy here, but I don't suffer fools gladly. I am on here to meet guys to box and wrestle real time. No endless emails that go nowhere. No "cyber wrestling," whatever that is.
- USA - Washington D.C., Washington
(I'm here from 2/20/2019)
Home Base - Here two weeks per month
- USA - California, Palm Springs
(I'm here from 1/24/2019)
- USA - Delaware, Lewes
(I'm here between 3/16/2019 and 3/18/2019)
Seeking wrestling and boxing
I am willing to travel 2000 miles
I am willing to host. (Bed and Breakfast)
StatsAge: 63-year-old Male
Stats: 5'10" (178 cm), 175 lbs (79 kg)
Languages spoken: English
Gear: Trunks. Singlet. Jock.
Olympic / Greco-Roman
No holds barred
Last login: 1 hours ago
Last modified: 12/06/2018 2:52 PM
Start of membership: 11/22/2014 5:00 PM
Past OpponentsAkrob ats averagejoe BDsubmit bubber11 carolina_wrestler caveman country Dadfights dadwrestle dcgrappler dg_duffy donner1 Donwres funwrestlerwolder Grizzled Wrestler gutpuncherVA hashbock Huskyalphadad Ironneck37 Iwreslinca Jayboy jiminmaine LBFighter leopard_trunks Lkn4awrestletoy mattco MAwrestler MEGRAPPLE mikeswuk Musclewrestler1 oldscrapperderby Peteuk Pomonabear racingwrestler RassleSF Redmond40 RhodyRaybo Rock Hard Pete roll ruffdude RuffFightChallenge Rusnak Sam ScottsdaleAZ Spruceman stanmoreboxer submit2me ToughMature Tyger usmcwrestler Wannawrestle wanttowrestle wildcat wjones WrestlingCowboy yonkerswrangler
- 2/24/2019 6:00 PM: NYC Wrestlefest 2019 (Organizer: brawl mart; Event completed )
- 7/13/2018 10:00 AM: Thunderdome VI - 2018 Summer Slam (Organizer: averagejoe; Event completed )
- 4/08/2018 12:30 PM: Wrestling Practice - April 2018 (Organizer: Sean MacGowan; Event completed )
- 3/24/2018 10:00 AM: UCW's Open Ring Open Mat Event (Organizer: mikey3458; Event completed )
- 5/06/2017 1:00 PM: May 2017 Grapevine Group Wrestling Day – High Barnet, London UK – PLEASE READ EVENT DETAILS (Organizer: matworker; Event completed )
Had a great time with Navy Guy. Sadly it was far too short, but I really want to lock up with him again!
stanmoreboxer is recommended by Navyguy
I had the pleasure of gloving up and squaring off in a boxing match with Stanmoreboxer at his place in north London. He’s a tough opponent who comes right at you with fists flying. We had a good, spirited fight with solid shots delivered and received both ways. Strong opponent with good reach and a solid jab. A gentleman and great host before during and after the fight. Highly recommended.
Navyguy is recommended by Huskyalphadad
We have wrestled several times, and every time was great. He is tough and we have good matches. I look forward to wrestling him again.
Navyguy is recommended by Grizzled Wrestler
I had the opportunity to wrestle Navyguy in during one of my trips to DC. After a little time getting to chatting to get to know each other, we wrestled. He gave me a good working over. He knows his stuff. I'm sure he could have found other wrestlers more to his skill than me, but he was gracious and I always appreciate getting an opportunity to wrestle.
Navyguy is recommended by oldscrapperderby
Navyguy is a great bloke, I was happy to accept his invition for a proper fight and we were going to use a matroom , but when this proved difficult to arrange we decided on an interim less agressive meet in his hotel room, and given the restraints of this we had a good rough match , he certainly knows his moves and how to punch and is a very strong guy , we called it a draw after about 2 hours , and I'm looking forward to meeting again soon for a proper scrap in a ring.
oldscrapperderby is recommended by Navyguy
After having seen his profile for years, I had the pleasure of meeting Den for a wrestle in Sheffield. He’s experienced, strong, tough and knows his holds and moves. Above all else he’s a great guy to hang out with. We did a moderately paced wrestling session with submissions both ways, and plans for a more competitive bout in a UK ring in the coming months. Happy to have made a new wrestling friend heee in the UK.
Took several tries, but finally got our first match out of the way. He's tough and to willing to back down. He'll dish out what he gets.
If you are looking for a good workout, you found it.
Look forward to more and brutal rematches against him.
Navyguy is recommended by dadwrestle
Round 4: Despite his tendency to arrive in UK bringing snow, we hit the Barnet mats again! TOTALLY reliable, packing an even harder punch. Nearly 3 hours of mat action! Who could ask for more? A real star of the wrestling world!
Round 3; the BEST YET! I would like to say and easy win for me, but it would not be true. Never underestimate this guy!! Fast, strong with killer punches. We had over 2 hours hard ground wrestling that was pretty even the whole session. Hugely enjoyable; safe and sane but aggressive as it should be. This is one of my all time favourite opponents!! A great guy too off the mats. Roll on the next fight! 5 STAR HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
This was a match up easily arranged. What I didnt realise was that I would be facing a proper powerhouse of a wrestler. We had two solid hours of full on submission wrestling. Hes strong, tough and skilled on the mats and delivers an intense, fun and sane bout. If you agree to body punching, watch out! He's one hell of a puncher! Safe, sane and reliable. One of the best wrestlers I have met on my mats in a long time. Roll on his next visit to London!! 100% recommendation!
The return match! As tough as ever, this wrestler has lost weight, and looks good on it! Just as aggressive, just as sound a puncher!! It was an intense session with subs on both sides. This guy is a class act!
dadwrestle is recommended by Navyguy
UPDATED Recommendation. FIGHT 3. 09 JAN 18:
Another great fight session with Dadwrestle. Rough, brutal, back and forth multiple submission fight. He remains a very formidable opponent who comes to fight and is all business on the mats. Hits hard and fast and can submit you with brutal punches or a variety of submission holds. A bull on the mats who comes right at you to punish you. He is an educated, highly intelligent, accomplished and worldly professional who is great to talk and spend time with Post-fight. Fight him, and thank me later! Highest recommendation.
Had a great 2 hour multiple submission wrestling match with dad wrestle at his flat in Lindon. Good back and forth wrestling with submissions about even both ways. Dont let him get on top of you. He's a big tough skilled wrestler with a lot of moves and a devastating punch. Nice large mat room in central London. Hospitable host and a great guy on and off the mats. Can't wait for a rematch on my next trip to London. Highly recommended.
Great guy and great host....tough fighter who is not afraid to fight serious and hard....regardless of the size of the opponent
We had a great time–strong guy, fit and friendly–worked me over in multiple subs but we also traded holds and and worked on some bjj/ mma technique. Need a rematch!
Good multiple submission wrestling match with Donwres today. He’s quick, agile, and knows a variety of BJJ holds and moves, which he shared with me during our hour long match. He made me work to earn my submissions on him. Good guy, shows up on time, ready to wrestle. Fit, fun, friendly. Wrestle him if you get the chance. He’s the real deal.
Navyguy is recommended by RhodyRaybo
Oh my gosh! What a fantastic wrestler. Navyguy is very strong and very skilled. He's also very personable and a great guy to rumble with then just talk with. I can't believe he's been coming to New England regularly, yet this was the first time we met. Well, thankfully it won't be the last. I've wrestled close to 175 different guys in over 800 matches over the last 6 and a half years, and I definitely put Navyguy in the top 10! Thumbs up, WAY, WAY up
RhodyRaybo is recommended by Navyguy
Finally met up with the legendary RhodyRaybo after a couple of years of seeing his profile and vids. We had four or five good hard fights over the course of a couple hours. Ray is a strong tough aggressive wrestler, and at 225 pounds he’s a load to try to handle and control in a fight. He comes right at you, hard and fast, so be ready. Super fun guy to roll with. Great host with a nice private mat room in his house. He’s all business on the mats in a fight, and a fun friendly guy to talk and hang out with before and after the bout. Get yourself to Rhode Island and take him on; guaranteed good time and good wrestling. He’s one of the best on Meetfighters. Highest recommendation.
A great fighter and a great guy. Good smart wrestling, skilled, hard hitting, tough as nails, the real deal. Full on or dialed back, as needed. Formidable, friendly, fun. The best.
Bubber11 is the real deal. Shows up on time, gloves up, squares off, ready to fight. Strong, agile, hits you hard and often. Powerful bull of a man who comes right at you, fists flying, using his bulk to back you down. Aggressive and loves to fight. Also, smart, funny, engaging and fun to hang with. Great guy. One of the best. Fight him if you get the chance.
Navyguy is recommended by jiminmaine
I enjoyed my match with Navyguy. He's a good wrestler and we had a good time rolling together. Afterwards, we hung out, had dinner and got to know each other better. Nice guy with an interesting background. Hope he becomes a regular opponent on the mats with me.
jiminmaine is recommended by Navyguy
Jim is a skilled, powerful wrestler who knows his holds and moves. He is well beyond the novice stage and a formidable opponent who had me on defense most of our multiple submission match. Great guy and fun to wrestle and hang with. Very strong guy. Great match and looking forward to another go with him. Wrestle him if you get the chance.
Navyguy is recommended by Musclewrestler1
I had a great time wrestling Navyguy today. Our match was everything I hoped it would be. He is a strong skilled wrestler. I have to admit that he had me pinned a number of times. We got into some fun punching and slapping each other around as well. All in fun!! We went at it for a good sweaty 90 minutes. I highly recommend Navy guy for a match and can't wait for a rematch with him.
Musclewrestler1 is recommended by Navyguy
Great multiple submission wrestling match with Musclewrestler1. This guy has a strong, worked out gym body and knows how to use it to his advantage in a fight. He’s relentless and keeps coming at you. We rolled for a good 90 mins of rough sweaty submission wrestling. Showed up early and ready to fight. Great guy. Don’t pass up the chance to fight him. Looking forward to a rematch.
Navyguy is recommended by RuffFightChallenge
Navyguy hosted 3 of us for a great fight day at his beach house. We had a lot of space and with mats it was a great setup. He himself is not only a wonderful host, but a very tenacious fighter---not afraid to take on guys bigger than himself. He's skilled and doesn't back down. If you get the chance do take this guy on!
RuffFightChallenge is recommended by Navyguy
I had the pleasure of hosting RuffFightChallenge, along with CountryFighter and NJWrightStuff, at my beach house in Delaware for the first (of hopefully many more) Beach Brawls. RFC is one of the top two or three toughest fighters I have ever taken on. He's big, strong, powerful, and all business on the mats. Hits hard and will take your best shots without flinching. We fought four or five times over the course of the day and he forced me to up my game and level of aggressiveness to compete with him. I appreciated his willingness to provide me between-bout coaching and trips on moves and tactics to make me a better fighter.
Great guy. Hot burly body. Smart, worldly and great to hang out with for a couple of days. Can't wait for the next fight with RFC. Fight him if you get the chance.
NavyGuy was one of the very first guys I wrestled in an earlier phase of wrestling/grappling life – back in 2006. We were somewhat evenly matched then; and despite improvements in both of us, still rather even. Hence, it was a delight to meet him again today (Oct 15, 2017). Just a he was back then, he is a friendly, vibrant man and fun to wrestle. Great to host him in the matroom.
It was mainly a freestyle-oriented thing as a third party present is a freestyler; adding to the excitement for me. He is strong, skilled, quick, and 100 percent respectful of limits and tapouts. He is also good at both give and take in the Gutpunching Department. I hope, a vastly shorter time passes before joining him again on the mats.
Finally had the opportunity to get back on the mats with Spruceman again after about ten years had passed since our first meeting. We did a round robin series of freestyle wrestling bouts with a third guy present. Spruce has gotten stronger, fitter, and more technically skilled since our last fight. He's a strong, agile fighter who can deliver and take hard punches. He has a great mat room setup at his place. Don't let's his age fool you, Spruce is a legit fighter. Take him on if you get the chance.
Navyguy is recommended by wanttowrestle
Navyguy and I had an intense, fun, and emensly satisfying evening of fighting with submission, wrestling, boxing, and punching. He is an experienced, masterful submission wrestler and results of his boxing lessons were clearly evident-just ask my body. I received many, many of his powerful, manly punches as we wrestled and boxed. We did a lot of give and take punching which I really enjoyed. Besides being a strong, well built man, Navyguy is very friendly. I felt comfortable with him from the moment we shook hands. I highly recommend this strong, knowledgeable, and personable fighter.
wanttowrestle is recommended by Navyguy
What a great wrestling and boxing session with wanttowrestle. He was easy to coordinate and communicate with beforehand, drove two and a half hours to my hotel, showed up early WITH MATS, ready to fight. We had the mats on the floor of my room in no time, and immediately got down to business, wrestling first, then boxing. Dale is a strong powerful man and good wrestler, hard to subdue and submit. It was back and forth wrestling, we each got submission.
After a breather, we gloved up with 12s and had a good rough body boxing session, very hard shots given and received. We both delivered shots that dropped the other man. Good stuff. Dale is a tough strong man, and don't be fooled by his age. After boxing, we hung out and talked and got to know each other. Great guy: smart, well traveled, well read, quality human being. This was one of the best fight sessions I've ever had. Highly recommended. Can't wait for a rematch.
Navyguy is recommended by ScottsdaleAZ
I had the compliment of an overture from Navyguy several months ago, and we kept in polite contact. Come to find out when he contacts you, his travel to you is likely to happen. I highly recommend you accept the invitation!
Navyguy showed up after traveling cross country, and he still had plenty of stamina to wrestle intensely for several sessions. I have no doubt we could have gone for hours, but for the hour. One of the best wrestling experiences I have ever had, no exaggeration. He sure knows his body chess and holds, but do not be intimidated by his experience. I sense he'd roll well even with novices, but do bring your A game and be ready to wrestle!
And if a great wrestling opponent is not sufficient recommendation, he's a pleasant guest and great conversationalist. His pictures on this site circa 6/2017 do not do him justice; he looks real good in a singlet.
Wrestled a man, made a friend.
ScottsdaleAZ is recommended by Navyguy
ScottsdaleAZ and I had exchanged messages for several months and planned a match for my next visit to AZ, which occurred yesterday. We had a great wrestling match. He is a deceptively strong, quick, agile wrestler who is very tenacious and keeps coming at you. Although I had a weight advantage, we fought to a draw. We had series of 3 or 4 rounds and neither one of us submitted, only stopping when we rolled off the mats into the wall or furniture. Very strong wrestler who knows his holds.
He was a gracious host and has one of the best and most spacious wrestling mat setups anywhere. He's a smart professional guy and we spent hours talking about all kinds of things before and after wrestling. ScottsdaleAZ is one good guys on this site. Highly recommended; wrestle him if you get the chance.
Navyguy is recommended by gutpuncherVA
WOW! Incredible jobber! Navyguy is usually a heel or into competitive matches but he kindly agreed to job for me and was terrific at it. Took dozens of body shots, suffered my holds and fought back just enough to keep it very interesting. He's strong and knows what he is doing on the mat. I'm definitely looking forward to another session with him.
gutpuncherVA is recommended by Navyguy
GREAT session with gutpuncherVA. I agreed to be (an aggressive) jobber for him, in exchange for letting him gut / chest punch me for as long, hard and often as he wanted. WOW. He is strong, tough and delivers very hard shots at a rapid clip. We went at it for well over an hour and it was a tough workout. I will be sore for days but it was worth it. Great guy and a real gentleman. Looking forward to the next session. Highly recommended.
After months of talking to "Navyguy", my dream finally came true. We meet earlier today at Barnet during a wrestle meet. Although there was a vast weigh difference "Navyguy" could still hold his own. He's experienced, skilled and is a real pleasure to wrestle. If you ever get the chance to meet this polite, easy going and intelligent American, don't pass the opportunity. I'm certainly looking forward to ring two then next he's in the U.K. Very recommendable.
After chatting on MeetFighters for perhaps a year I had the good fortune to meet up and wrestle a Phil at Barnet yesterday. He's a big, strong guy with solid wrestling skills and instincts. We had a good bout but he wore me down and made me submit. He's a very approachable and affable guy; a pleasure to roll with on the mat and talk and hangout with before and after. Looking forward to my next trip to England and seeing Phil again. Highly recommended.
Navyguy is recommended by racingwrestler
If you read my profile you know my focus or at least preference is younger guys. However when you get the opportunity to meet a legend like Navyguy you can't pass it up. Stronger than he looks and well skilled too. So if you get the chance to take him on, be sure to take it. You certainly won't regret it.
racingwrestler is recommended by Navyguy
After seeing his profile for years, I finally had the good fortune to meet up with the legendary Racingwrestler at his place in PA. He's a big strong guy with advanced wrestling skills who will wear you out and wear you down and make you enjoy it. He's even better in person than in his pics, which are great. Very nice guy and terrific host. I had a blast. Highly recommended; wrestle him if you get the chance.
After several years (4+) of chatting back and forth, Navyguy and I found ourselves in the same place at the same time. We set up a time for our very long overdue fight. We tangled for "HOURS"! I can honestly say that I haven't had this much fun, OR, felt this much pain (the good kind) in a long while. Navyguy and I went back and forth, he submitting me and me submitting him. The score is even and we need a repeat to determine the true winner of this contest. He's a nice guy, professional, knows his way around the mat and put me in some holds that the hulk wouldn't be able to get out of. A true pleasure to meet and I'm so glad that this finally happened. Navyguy---you're on notice....I'm coming to get you to claim my title! :)
So, finally, after years of talking, the moon, sun, stars, and yesterday's random comet aligned and Submit2me found ourselves in the same zip code and we got on the mats for a marathon wrestling session. We wrestled for about 4 hours, multiple submission, back and forth, evenly matched, two older guys banging each other hard, the best kind of fight. We each got three submits, then exhaustion prevailed and we called it a draw.
Submt2me is a strong, agile and tenacious wrestler who just keeps coming at you. Knows his holds; he immobilized me with a combination choke and scissor hold that had me trapped and tapping. He's a great guy to hang with: professional, smart, funny, and respectful of limits.
This was the one of the two best wrestling matches I've had in years. I had a blast spending most of the day with Submit2me. I was exhausted, sore and completely spent at the end of the day. We will meet up again soon to resume the battle and determine the winner.
Take my advice and wrestle him if you get the chance. Two thumbs up. 🤼♂️
Navyguy is recommended by Rock Hard Pete
15th January, 2017
We were at a group meeting today. I didn't wrestle Pat until the end of the session. What a great finale! This man likes to give bears a hard time and I was no exception! Good wrestling and good company off the mat too. Highly recommended.
Rock Hard Pete is recommended by Navyguy
Had the pleasure of wrestling Pete at the Barnet mat room at the group meet on Sunday 15/1. He is a big strong bear wrestler, hard to subdue; you have to work hard and be on your toes. If he gets on top of you, you're done. He is quick and agile for a man of his size. Pete is also a great guy: funny, smart, educated, well traveled and a good conversationalist. Loads of fun to roll with this big bear! Looking forward to my next trip to London to wrestle him again. Highly recommended! Wrestle him and thank me later 👍
I had the honour of welcoming this strong american on my mats today. He is a strong competitive man and we fought for over an hour and half in a submission match with no subs either way.
He knows his ways around the mats but even his best holds could not get me to submit and visa versa. All ready looking forward to a rematch when he next returns to these shores
I had the privilege of meeting Peteuk for a submission fight today. Pete graciously met me at the Colchester train station and drove me to his house where he hosted this brawl, We did a submission wrestling match in his home matroom for 90 minutes and fought to a draw. Neither of us could make the other man submit. It was the best fight I've had in a couple of years. Two guys, exactly the same size and close in age, going all out in a hot sweaty encounter.
Pete is a strong, skilled fighter who has a wide array of moves, techniques and submission holds. He's a relentless competitor and you need to be on your toes in a fight against him. He's smart, funny, confident and has just enough of a cocky attitude to make it interesting. A great fight with a great bloke. Can't wait for our rematch. Highly recommended.
Navyguy is recommended by MAwrestler
We were a long time in getting together for a match, but last night we finally pulled it off. But Navyguy really outta change his name to Velociraptor because he comes after you on the mat like you're his next meal. LOL. It was great. This guy is full of surprises–When the two of you go in for the clinch, he knees you in the gut, and I love his take-no-prisoners attitude when he gets on top of you, using his forearm to knead your face into new shapes and patterns. I kept thinkin: WTF is he gonna do next? I had a really good time tryin to stay alive. And in our off-the-mat discussion of a couple hours, I found him endlessly interesting to talk to, especially as we shared wrestling experiences and stories of characters we've met–yes, guys, I'm talkin about you. I can't wait to wrestle Navyguy again and so recommend him to you with enthusiasm.
MAwrestler is recommended by Navyguy
Finally met up with Patrick at his place after a couple of years of correspondences. We had a fun couple of hours on and off the mats.
He is a big strong guy with long arms and strong legs; very hard to get him off his feet and bring him down to the mat. Watch out for his leg scissors and grapevine. Strong grip as well, he had a wrist lock on me that took me a long time and some dirty tactics to get out of.
We spent a long time talking before and after the match; trading stories and comparing notes on other wrestlers and encounters we have had over the years, as well as other subjects. Patrick is a bright, worldly and engaging guy who has led an interesting life. Great guy to talk with.
Highly recommend Patrick. Looking forward to another match on my next trip to MA.
Nice guy. I had a lot of fun practicing holds and escapes with him. All limits respected.
Mike is a tough, skilled and experienced fighter. Strong as an ox. Way above my strength and skill level in a submission match. We had a good hour of trading holds, moves and counters on each other. He is good about showing me holds and moves and how to counter them. Good guy who respects all limits. Highly recommend Mike to anyone.
Navyguy is recommended by Pomonabear
Navyguy for being lighter than me was extremely strong, quick, and had me locked down in positions difficult to get out of. He obviously has a wealth of wrestling experience both Pro/sub. Navyguy is one of your "bucket List" guys that you'll want to wrestle over and over and over, hot guy, lots of fun, great personality, funny, real sharp dude! Looking forward to our next brawl!
he is strong, fit and flexible, we had a great tussle and I would not hesitate to meet him again. an all-round nice guy too
Navyguy is recommended by funwrestlerwolder
Awesome man to wrestle. You know you've been in a real match when you wrestle him. Respectful on the mats, but will take you down in an instant if you let your guard down. Tough opponent on the mats, great guy to get to know. Had dinner and drinks afterwards. Looking forward to a rematch with him in the future. Can give some solid punches to your gut while wrestling if you enjoy that as well. I highly recommend him if you like a good tough match, you won't be disappointed.
funwrestlerwolder is recommended by Navyguy
Fun, sweaty, aggressive wrestling match with Chris in Columbus. Multiple submissions; we both got our licks in on each other. Strong guy and good wrestler with a powerful head scissors that made me tap. We traded hard gut punches that made us both double over. Fun couple of hours. Good guy. Highly recommended.
leopard trunks is recommended by Navyguy
Had a good submission wrestling match with leopard_trunks. He's a strong, tough submission grappler who knows the moves and the holds of an experienced wrestler. Heck of a good guy on and off the mats. I'm looking forward to a rematch. Don't miss the chance to square off with him. Highly recommended.
ToughMature is recommended by Navyguy
Edward and I have been wrestling ften years. He's a formidable opponent: strong, tough, and a skilled fighter with a wide range of moves and submission holds. We've had some epic submission fights over the years, followed by drinks and hanging out. Great guy on and off the mats; smart, funny and all-round good guy.. Don't miss the chance to take him on.
Fun time with Navyguy, strong, skilled and likes to mix it up. He was giving up a lot of lbs but was not put off at all. Will wrestle him anytime. Total alpha!
Great wrestling session with Redmond40. He's a big bruiser, total alpha, with good wrestling skills who likes to dominate. Be aggressive, take the fight to him, and get your shots in before he wears you down. Fun, aggressive wrestling. Great guy on and off the mats. Looking forward to next match with him. Highly recommended.
Strong and tenacious wrestler. Good guy on and off the mats. Get to know and wrestle him!
We wrestled a few times when we both lived in San Diego. The matches were fun and we both worked up a good sweat. Only problem was he moved East and we haven't been in the same place for some rematches. But, if we are ever in the same place I would love another chance to wrestle him.
Great guy off the mats too!